Debating Motherhood

German Family Minister Ursula von der Leyen has pushed through a plan to increase the country's childcare provision. The aim is to make it easier for mothers to go back to work. Germany is trying to reverse a falling birth rate and it's thought if women can find a way to successfully balance career and children, they will opt to have more kids.

But the plan has met with criticism, especially from conservative circles, who say that mothers should be at home with the kids, not leaving them in childcare while they move up the career ladder.

Désirée Nick is a German entertainer, cabaret artist and author who has never been shy about expressing her opinion. DW-WORLD.DE asked her where she stood on the topic of the role of women, and mothers, in Germany.

DW-WORLD.DE: Désirée Nick, what do you think of current attitudes for women and motherhood in Germany?

Désirée Nick: I think it's sick that the whole subject is being treated as it is. Of course a woman has the same right to develop her talents, abilities and possibilities just like a man does. Those who have a calling or a mission that will give their life form, who want to be independent and take advantage of everything life has to offer shouldn't be deprived of the right to raise children at the same time. In Germany, that is unfortunately the case. Children are presented as something bad. In media reports, in politics, the fact that a woman has children and works is raised to the level of high drama. How sick is that?

Children have to orient themselves to the lives of their parents. They have to be integrated into the working world of their parents. It's well known that the early socialization of children with others in their same age group has more benefits than time spent with mommy in between the ironing board and the washing machine.

Where does this image or idea come from?

Oh, it's just German. The Germans love panic and drama. I think it's sick that the whole subject of children is handled the way it is. Children are seen as something negative. Help! I'm going to have a child. What's going to happen to me?! I think such an attitude is completely on the wrong track. The Germans and their politicians badly need a course correction.

The family minister, Ursula von der Leyen, wants to triple the number of childcare spots available so that mothers will have an easier time reentering the work force. How do you explain the intense criticism of the plan from some quarters, particularly from more conservative ones?

I think we need to create possibilities for everything. Homosexuals and lesbians should be able to marry, because love doesn't happen often enough in life. If two people find each other, even if they are two men, they should be able to marry. That doesn't mean that I, who perhaps lives outside this milieu, also have to marry. But the opportunity should be there.

If the number of childcare spots is tripled, that doesn't mean that the housewife and mother who doesn't have to work will be forced to get a job. But for those women who want to work, or who have to work, the childcare spots need to be there. The biggest scandal of all, which is not even being discussed, is that childcare expenses aren't tax deductible. I find that absolutely inexcusable.

One German bishop who was critical of the plan said it would reduce women to the status of "birthing machines."

That's also German, simply sick. I'm no friend of the Germans, I have to be very clear. I'm a cosmopolitan, and I think after reunification, many more things should have been learned from East Germany. It wasn't all bad back then. Of course, it was a horrible system, but parts of that country's policies regarding children were positive. They made it easy for women to go back to work after having children. This new reunified Federal Republic should have incorporated some of those East German aspects. All the things that one needs for a life that is worthwhile -- a roof over your head, childcare, food, health care -- all of that was taken care of in the GDR. It's also that way in the Scandinavian countries.

In Germany today, these things are not being discussed. Here people say the Germans are dying out, which also causes panic, but they aren't saying that because they love children. They're saying that because they're afraid of not getting their pensions when they retire. In places where children are really loved, for example, Jamaica or Rio, places marked by poverty, the financial situation of parents is no argument for severely limiting the number of kids you have. Germans are doing better than ever, and the better they live, the fewer children they have and the more egocentric they become.

You have written a book, entitled "Eva Go Home," that refutes the thesis put forward by Eva Hermann in her own book that basically says a woman's place is in the home. Why did you feel it necessary to write that book?

Because Ms. Hermann's opinion was played up throughout the media for three months. She had a huge forum made available to her, although she occupies a very small niche, with her, yeah, almost racist, inhuman, discriminatory and inflammatory words: in short, saying that a woman belongs in the kitchen and shouldn't go to work. I mean, just think about it, being a mother is one of the shortest times of a woman's life. Children today are grown up by the time they're 16. What is the woman supposed to do after that? That's when the longest portion of a woman's life begins.

Are Eva Hermann's ideas a reaction against feminism?

Of course. She's made feminism responsible for the decline in the birth rate. She blames it for everything. But she's an amateur sociologist, a bottle-blond performer, and not a specialist. If I want information, I'll read a book written by a sociologist and not one by a news reader who's written a book which turns Germany into her own personal hazardous landfill site.

You seem to have made it work. You have a son and a very successful career.

It's not easy, I'll tell you that. Equality for women demands a lot. On the other side, I can only shrug my shoulders and point to a lot of woman who have achieved the same thing men have, just having to do it walking backwards and in high heels.

It is a daily struggle. But if you learn an instrument, a sport, do you want to be comfortable or do you want to be successful. It's not possible to have it both ways. If you want something in this life, a little quality of life, you have to work for it. I think that's something that children can learn very well from working mothers.

So what needs to happen to change these kinds of attitudes?

It's not going to happen. The Germans are going to stay German. The English are going to remain eccentrics, with their black humor that I love. People in Rio de Janeiro are always going to be able to dance and look great on the beach, which I love even more. And the Americans are always going to have an optimistic attitude and be willing to take risks. They have the ability to forget their failures and start over, anytime, anywhere.

But if a German fails at some project, he'll withdraw, become an alcoholic and write poetry. An American shrugs his shoulders, says "so what," and starts over. That's the way I'm going to raise my child.