Russian author says fallout of war will be 'terrible'

Lyudmila Ulitskaya has been in Berlin since the beginning of March 2022. Like many thousands of Russians from the culture scene, the 79-year-old has left her native Russia without knowing whether she will ever be able to return.

A keen analyst of past and present Russian society, Ulitskaya one of the sharpest critics of contemporary Russia. Her novels and short stories reflect the tragedy of the 20th century, the era of tyranny and genocide. Ulitskaya was one of the first to speak out about the Russian war against Ukraine. DW met her at her apartment in Berlin.

DW: You have been in Berlin for a few weeks, how are you at the moment?

Lyudmila Ulitskaya: Actually, I am doing well — even if leaving the country means that I now have to learn to live under completely different circumstances. Somehow it is a rebirth into a new life. All habits, all everyday reflexes have to change.

I read your son encouraged you to go to Berlin. Why did you opt for what might be a prolonged stay away from your native Moscow? Were you in danger?

I didn't feel threatened, and couldn't really understand my son's decision. But I guess he knows better than I do about what is happening today. I remember how I got my sons out of the country when they were at the age when they would have been drafted to join the army — that was during the war in Afghanistan. I sent my boys to the United States. So now I'm in Berlin.

You have always been critical of state power in the Soviet Union, and later Russia. You often said that is a characteristic of many Russian intellectuals. Ukrainian author Andrei Kurkov says the opposite is true, that the Russian writers and intellectuals he has met still have a Soviet mentality. Did he meet the wrong people?

It is difficult for me to answer this question: Kurkov has his point of view, I have mine. In my wide circle of acquaintances — I'm not talking about friends, but about the numerous people I know — not a single person would have supported Putin's war. Not one.

Then why does it seem Russian intellectuals are not really heard in Russian society?

The intellectuals — what we call intelligentsia in Russia — just don't have much influence on Russian society. The voice of the intelligentsia is heard but only faintly: Almost all mass media that served as its platform have been blocked. The voice of protest exists, but hardly anyone hears it.

100 years ago, many from Russia's cultural elite emigrated. Is history repeating itself?

For me, it's mainly an interesting situation: in 1922, Russian Berlin was an extremely exciting cultural phenomenon. I recall Viktor Shklovsky's novel Zoo or Letters Not about Love. Today, exactly 100 years later, one could have written a text entitled Zoo 2. It's intriguing.

You and numerous other authors have signed a letter by Russian intellectuals against the war in Ukraine. Is it a message to show the world not all Russians think alike, or is it a message to Russians?

There is a long tradition of such protest letters in Russia. Usually, they are focused on the government. Some texts are good, some are passable. The result, however, is the same — such letters don't impact politics. Because the powers that be in Russia are not accustomed to considering or even perceiving, society. That is how it has always been and still is today. Above all, intellectuals write them to preserve their own dignity and to show to the world that not everyone in Russia supports the government's decisions.

Your literary protagonists are mostly strong women who show solidarity, are independent, full of energy, and practical — "everyday heroines." Where are today's real heroines?

Actually, women have the upper hand in Russia, everywhere but in government. If this war can be stopped, it can only be stopped by women. If it is not stopped, it means that those in power don't care at all what women think and what they want.

What are the consequences of the war in Ukraine for Russian society?

These consequences will be terrible. I fear this war will poison relations between our two peoples for at least the next two generations, perhaps longer. It is a great trauma. I'm not even talking about the economy.

Russians and Ukrainians have close ties. There are numerous Ukrainian-Russian families, and children with mixed identities. In the past, such families usually spoke Russian, now it will be the other way around. Like it or not, Russia is strengthening Ukraine as a political nation — as a result of this war.

My thoughts are with the mothers of the soldiers, Russian and Ukrainian. Because with their sons we have lost the most important thing there is: young lives.

 Russian artists who do not clearly position themselves against the war and against Putin are internationally isolated. Do you think that's right? Must artists take a political stance? Isn't that impossible to ask with regard to what happens in Russia with people who oppose the regime?

Like everyone else, every artist has a right to his or her own views, even in politics. An artist should be judged solely by his work, not by his political statements or attitudes. In this context, allow me to remind you of Richard Wagner and his views.

Quite a few artists are leaving Russia, many for Germany. How can we support them?

It is very important that people in the West understand that the attitude to the war in Russia is by no means as unanimous among the population as the government likes to portray it. Large parts of the population, ordinary people as well as the educated classes, abhor the war and would gladly take to the streets against it if it were not so dangerous.

First and foremost, you are a writer, and you want to be perceived as such. But at the moment people ask you less about your literary works and more about the situation in Russia and the war in Ukraine. You are a kind of ambassador for the other Russia. Are you happy with that role?

No, I'm not at all happy, I would much rather have continued to be an observer, which is how I actually define my role as a writer. But life just decided differently for me.

This interview with Sabine Kieselbach was originally written in German.