Charli: I hope you have a good memory. I think you do.
Rachel: Haha... No Comment.
MUSIC: Balkan jig
Rachel: Welcome to the latest instalment of our Don't Drink the Milk travel bites – little tidbits and tangents from the journeys we went on and the rabbit holes we went down in Season 1. Basically, fun stuff to tide you over until Season 2 kicks in. I'm Rachel Stewart. And here with me is producer, Charli Shield.
Charli: Hello!
Rachel: Because today we're taking you all the way back to Season 1, Episode 1 – where we followed the journey of the standardized passport from its 19th century inception in Switzerland to its money-making era in North Macedonia. If you haven't listened to that episode already, pause this right now and do that. We'll wait! …Alright, so, the story of the passport took some very interesting twists and turns – from regretful inventors to statelessness to selling citizenship... I feel like we revealed most of its secrets, didn't we?
Charli: Well yeah, we certainly tried our best, we went full detective on the passport! So, we're not doing that again… Instead, we're gonna dig up a few fun facts from our journey to North Macedonia. Facts delivered by our very charming and very cheerful city tour guide Zoran, who you'll no doubt remember from the episode.
Zoran: My name is Zoran, I’m a tour guide from Skopje.... who is conducting free Skopje walking tours for the last 8 years.
Rachel: We love Zoran!
Charli: He was such a gem. We joined his free city walking tour in the capital city, Skopje for a crash course in North Macedonia's history, culture, food, language…
Rachel: And it's people.
Charli: And he was a bit of a comedian.
Rachel: Maybe we found it funnier because we'd only had like two hours sleep.
Charli: Oh yeah, we arrived in Skopje at like 4 in the morning that day. Anyway, that was all 6 months ago, so I think it's time for a little refresher. So, I've prepared a little quiz of sorts for you today to test your North Macedonian general knowledge.
Rachel: Ooooh! Okay.
Charli: First question is the easiest one. How many people live in North Macedonia?
Rachel: Oh no. Ummmm. Is it 2 million?
Charli: Yes! Bingo! It’s a tiny little country.
Rachel: I feel like there was some sort of comparison, like fewer people live in North Macedonia than are currently incarcerated in the US or something?
Charli: I think that’s in the clip.
Zoran: We are around 2 million people. It’s not easy to find a smaller nation than Macedonia nowadays. Right now, in United States according to official statistics, almost 2.5 million Americans live their lives in prison – my full nation can fit in US prisons!
Charli: Coming in with a quick fact check here. According to the latest statistics from March 2022, the US actually has 1.9 million people in prisons in the country. So, still about the same size as the North Macedonian population, which is pretty wild. Ok, moving on to fact number two. This one is about something sweet, something dark and bubbly.
Rachel: Haha. Umm...
Charli: This something used to have a little bit of a Class A drug in it! But not any more.
Rachel: A!
Charli: Tell the listeners what you think it is.
Rachel: Coca Cola.
Charli: Correct. North Macedonia and Coca Cola, what could possibly be the connection?
Rachel: I think he said that Skopje, the capital city, has the tastiest coca cola in the world. Or in Europe?
Charli: In the world!
Rachel: In the world! Yes, go big or go home.
Zoran: Coca Cola is made in more than 170 places in the world, including Skopje. Coca Cola headquarters checks them and chooses the best one. And the best on actually it's made in Skopje, Macedonia. If you don't trust me, go the the Coca Cola website and Google which is the best one in the world. Ooh! Really? Yeah!
Charli: So, Coca Cola announced that back in 2009. But clearly it was a big deal for the little Balkan country. And we did try some while we were there. Do you remember what you thought of it?
Rachel: I don't think my palate is refined enough, so I thought it tasted like a tasty soda.
Charli: Yeah, we have you on tape saying it tastes like coke.
Rachel. Haha. You heard it here first.
Charli: I remember it wasn't a very spicy coke. It was kind of flat. Which apparently is tastier?
Rachel: Because they’re not trying to distract you with bubbles!
Charli: Maybe. Ok, moving on. Later, as Zoran took us on the journey around the city, he pointed out something big and bold careering down the streets that would've looked familiar to many people on the tour, especially those from Britain – you! Any ideas?
Rachel: I wasn’t sure where you were going but thank you for the extra clue. It was a double decker red bus!
Charli: Exactly!
Rachel: That was gifted from China, or came from China? No, it was originally gifted from the UK then they started getting cheaper versions from China. Something like that.
Charli: Yeah, kind of.
Zoran: We have double deckers, not because we want to be London, it's simply because we are nostalgic. Until the late 1950s, we used to have proper wooden double decker buses in Skopje. And the locals fell in love with those double deckers, everyone wanted to take a ride in an English double decker. You know, they came from the forbidden world, the capitalistic countries, woohoo! But the local government they didn't want to see local people excited about something that came from the ugly capitalistic world. So, they decided, slowly and carefully, to remved those English double deckers from the streets. Around 15 years ago, there was a session in the city council, and they talked about renewing the buses for the public transport. So they've decided, you know what, we're going to renew our buses with double deckers again. But we cannot afford enough English double deckers today. Way over our budget. So we needed to find something cheaper. And you know what, when you look for something, you eventually find it. So, we bought our new double deckers from China.
Charli: So, at this point in the tour, we move into the city center. The main square. Do you remember what it looked like?
Rachel: It was a really wide open square. There was a big fountain in the middle. Which I remember you spent a long time getting some good atmospheric noise form.
Charli: We didn't use any of that. Haha.
Rachel: We definitely talked about the fact that there were just tons of really random looking statues that kind of all didn't seem to belong to each other. There was definitely a massive one which I think had Alexander the Great on top. There were definitely some communists. And some people from the Ottoman era, I think.
Charli: Yeah, the statues were definitely the standout feature of the center. They were everywhere. Do you remember when Zoran said these statues were built?
Rachel: I couldn't give you a date, but I think it was pretty recent. Because he was explainign how the confused nature of the identity of being then Macedonian or North Macedonian or all the different... because it was part of so many different countries and empires, this was kind of part of them trying to almost claim an identity and show this is who we are, this is our history.
Charli: Exactly. It was about 10-12 years ago that all of the statues were built.
Rachel: Oh wow.
Charli: So, super recent.
Zoran: We never had an opportunity to acknowledge our heroes before. For 22 centuries rules by someone else. You cannot acknowledge your heroes when you’re ruled by someone else. The government said now it’s our chance. None of these guys were put on the spot because there was a space available. All of them did something important in the past...
Soud of street music
Charli: Ok, last question. Real quick. What percentage of alcohol is Rakia, the local spirit we notably tried at the beginning of episode 1?
Rachel: It's definitely really really really strong. We can attest to that. I feel like it sounded like it was so strong it shouldn't be legal. So, seeing as you can get Absinthe that's like 80, I'm going to say 90%?
Charli: Oh my goodness. That would be deadly. I agree that it tasted like it was 90%, but it’s 40-50%.
Rachel: Oh, nothing!
Charli: And what can it be used for apart from getting lit?
Rachel: He definitely said something about cleaning. I don't know if it was his grandma or something, who used it to clean the sink.
Zoran: We Balkan nations, we fight and argue for no reason, just because we are too bored. But there’s one thing that unifies all of us. Rakia drinking. And we use it for everything. It's an appetizer, it's a welcoming drink. Even better, it’s a medicine. You have a headache, have a glass. You have digestion problems, one, maybe two glasses – ooh, I feel better already! My grandmother always used my grandfather's rakia to clean the house. 50% alcohol, squeaky crystal-clear windows! Everything disinfected!
Charli: That last one comes with no guarantee from us.
MUSIC: Balkan jig
Charli: So now we've come to the quickfire round of this travel bite, where we impart a few fun takeaways from our travels for the episode. First up, this one's the easy on. Best meal or new food we tried in North Macedonia. What do you say?
Rachel: I gotta say Tavče gravče!
Charli: Really?
Rachel: Yeah! I loved it.
Charli: That was the bean one?
Rachel: Yeah, with big flat white beans in... it wasn't quite a tomato sauce.
Charli: Tomato-y gravy.
Rachel: We had it at that one place with bread and it was great.
Charli: Lots of herbs as well I reckon. And that bread was delicious, fried, buttery.
Rachel: Really good.
Charli: What about a bonus shout-out for that meringue-like cookie we ate. Do you remember what it was called?
Rachel: I really had it in my head it was called something like a parachute or a pillow.
Charli: No, you're right, parachute!
Rachel: But I tried to Google that when we came home and I couldn't find it. But it's acutally Turkish, I think, originally. But I've forgotten what it was actually called.
Charli: It was this sort of meringue-y cookie.
Rachel: A bit like a macaroon!
Charli: Yeah, with some cream in the middle. A little sandwich. Meringue cookies sandwich.
Rachel: So good.
Charli: Delicious, life-changing. Quite unassuming, just a beige, flat biscuit.
Rachel: Oh, it was delicious.
Charli: What about a bonus bonus shoutout for the Snapchat, Facebook, Twitter ice cream at the ice cream parlor we passed?
Rachel: Oh yes! With the really crazy flavors.
Charli: They had...
Rachel: Red Bull!
Charli: Red Bull. TikTok.
Rachel: TikTok flavor haha.
Charli: And these really, really bright colors. It looked very inviting.
Rachel: We didn't try it.
Charli: No, we didn't. Big regrets! Good, that brings us to our next question. A place we'd have liked to see but didn't get to while in North Macedonia.
Rachel: I think a place that we really were thinking we might go but didn't was that canyn that was just outside of Skopje.
Charli: Matka Canyon?
Rachel: Yes, that one. Quite a few people recommended it to us as a place you can go on a boat trip, really beautiful scenery and not far out of the city. So a lot of people did it for day trips.
Charli: Question number three: a hidden treasure or surprise find from the trip.
Rachel: I would say Vevcani.
Charli: Oh yeah. That's in the episode.
Rachel: It's in the episode, but I think it's a hidden treasure of our experience. As in, ok we didn't hide it because we put it in the episode, but I think it's off the beaten track! It’s not somewhere you would necessarily think to go, or it wouldn't be on the top spots that people would go to if they went to North Macedonia once. And we even almost didn't go, but we were like no, we're gonna do it, spend the time going quite far in the car south. We spent a whole day going there and back. It was definitely worth it.
Charli: Well, we got a new passport!
Rachel: Yeah, right!
Charli: Yeah, that was really cool, and you can combine it with visiting Lake Ohrid – it’s on the way. Highly recommended. Now we come to the language tips. This will be fun. Not for the Macedonians listening to us try and pronounce these words. Ready?
Rachel: Yeah.
Charli: Do you remember any of the following: Hello, goodbye, thank you, can I please have some rakia?
Rachel: Hello, I remember realizing quite quickly that there was a version of good day that was verysimilar to some other countries roughly in the vicinity. And I think the North Macedonia version was something like "dobar den." But I can't remember hello. Now I'm thinking it's something like Strava, the running app – "zdravvvv..."
Charli: I think it's "zdravo."
Rachel: Yes! "Zdravo."
Charli: Apparently, it's not just North Macedonian but also Serbian and probably similar in other countries in that area.
Rachel: Yeah, if you know one language in that region of Europe, then you quite often could guess some other words when you cross the border into other countries.
Charli: What about guessing how to say thank you?
Rachel: could you give me a clue?
Charli: We said it all the time.
Rachel: That's not a clue!
Charli: We figured out how to say an easier alternative. Starting with f.
Rachel: "Fala!"
Charli: Yes! Ok, hello, thank you, goodbye?
Rachel: Clue.
Charli: Similar to hello. The same first letter.
Rachel: Z? I can only think of cheers.
Charli: What's cheers?
Rachel "Živele!"
Charli: "Živele!" How could I forget?
Rachel: I can hear your voice saying that in my head.
Charli: Okay, it's "zbogum."
Rachel: I don't think we used that very often. The good thing is that in Europe you can just say "ciao" everywhere.
Chari: "Ciao!" Oh, I just Google translated "bye" and it's "čao."
Rachel: Oh, that muct be "ciao."
Charli: Perfect. Zbogum!
Rachel: "Zbogum, čao!"
Chari: Čao!
Music: Travel vibes
Jingle: Phone ringing, different voices: "развален телефон", "Chinese whispers", "telefono senza fili", "telephone", "kulaktan kulağa", "Stille Post", "испорченный телефон", "téléphone arabe", "głuchy telefon", "Russian scandal", "Don't drink the milk", Dial tone, sound of hanging up phone